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Jul 28
2008
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So, Do African Men Only End Up with Obese Western Women?Posted by Displaced African in Untagged   |
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Hello,
Alright, this week I have labelled my Kenya Imagine Week. I will step out of my usual blogging gig at
.com">the Displaced African and post up a few articles this week where I open up discussion on articles that have to do with the immigrant experience like:
Jungle Fever
I recently wrote a post entitled A Few Quick Thoughts About Jungle Fever.
I was inspired to write this after one of the editors of a prominent African diaspora magazine refused to feature a discussion on one of my original, and crudest articles:
Jungle Fever: The Relationship Between African Men and White Women
Just because they won'tallow me to talk about their articles there, I won't let that stop me from having the discussion here :)
Open the Floor Adjudicator
The Jungle Fever article was written some time in mid January and to this day gets a few hundred visitors every week. Blogging being the web 2.0 medium that it is, over time, 56 comments have been left and I even had a shall-we-say spirited multi-part debate with one especially passionate reader over email.
What's Interesting About the Comments
What has been interesting so far about the comments has been:
1) Who was offended by the article: Some, not all, Caucasian women hate this article. This just astounds me. You would think it would offend African men more, but no one has stood up against this article quite like my female cousins from the land of Caucasia. Just check the comments below for a sample:
katherine said: i feel very much offended by your article..i am a white woman and my parner is an african man.none of your five points apply to me.i am an outgoing young woman ex model (not over weight or under weight)studying and about to go to university that just happenned to fall in love with a black man.in the uk its a multicultural society and i have friends from every race and culture.obviously there is still a small minority of narrow minded people like yourself.although, i imagine these cases may apply to some(1-5 points).i fasinated to know where you completed your studies.i imagine the us.i find what you have said may be true in some cases but certainly NOT all,and i feel you are either racist,poorly educated or just do not have enough life experience and knowledge on this topic to write this article.it shouldnt matter about the colour of your skin,just educating and understanding each other cultures
And she was actually quite surprised that I went to school
katherine said:just read over the top of your article and was amazed your study was in australia,,
2) African people are either apathetic, quietly support the ideas in the article or loudly support them:There have been no comments from African males, but the African males I have known who have read the article offline have all basically said the same thing:
It's sad, but it's true.
African women on the other hand appear to be behind the article 100%. When I was featured on the radio, both African female presenters talked about how much they agred with the article and wanted to talk about it. I think no one sums it up better than Wanjiku:
Wanjiku said: I didnt agree with you so much about what you wrote on Obama but on this one i agree with you 100 % .
So I Will Ask Y'all What I Have Asked Everybody?
The sensationalism of the article aside,is it telling the truth? Do African men "scrape the barrel" of Western society when choosing partners? If so, why? If not, please share examples to the contrary?
Anyway that's my two cents for today.
Have a fantastic week,
Mwangi
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written by msazi , July 28, 2008
Good Lord! That was something. Almost offensive but still a great article to read. I am female and weight and beauty are two very sensitive topics to tread on without offending someone. I am yet to say whether I am offended or not but truth is "there is never a proper way to prepare yourself to hear such truth." . I will definitely be looking up your blog to read some of what you have on there.
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Why are you shocked that white women are offended by your rant? Katherine, points out to you that she is not fat unattractive woman and is dating a black man (shock on you!)
You really seem to be stuck on stereotypes, huh?
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You really seem to be stuck on stereotypes, huh?
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written by sweetness , July 29, 2008
He, he , he! I completely agree with Mwangi's article! Every time I spot an african dude with jungle fever, the mzungu chick is always (99.99%) UGGGLLYYY!!! Fat, old, overweight, pimply, scrawny, bad teeth, suspect hygiene issues... the mzungu chicks really want to believe that the dude is hung like a bloody donkey...mpaka they discover otherwise! The irritating bit is that these dudes feel so bloody hot like they have won the lottery! Pathetic. Write on Mwangi!!!
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When I wrote that, I had just started the blog and I was not really as concerned about expectations or reactions and I was just exorcising what I was thinking and feeling at the time in its rawest form.
I am glad it resonated with you. If it did offend you, that's fine, but I guess I will ask you the same question I am asking everyone, "Is it true, are there any alternatives to that?"
Hope you like the rest of my blog and thanks in advance for stopping by.
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I am glad it resonated with you. If it did offend you, that's fine, but I guess I will ask you the same question I am asking everyone, "Is it true, are there any alternatives to that?"
Hope you like the rest of my blog and thanks in advance for stopping by.
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@Amina:I am shocked because I didn't really expect a reaction from white women and thought it would be African men and African women who would be offended by that article.
Amina, if I could see these exceptions with my own two eyes i.e. a native African man who has an absolutely gorgeous, upwardly mobile Western woman as a partner, it would fill my heart with nothing but delight, heck I would want to interview the man and ask him his secret, as much as I might make fun of it, it's a very sad reflection upon me and my peers when the best we can get is a woman who is kilogramically challenged or has a host of other problems.
As for the stereotype thing, no by this point I have written 180 articles most of which don't have to do with stereotypes, but it seems like nothing pulls people to a discussion quite like giving an unpopular point of view about either politics or sex.......kinda sad, but true.
So I ask you the same question, are the stereotypes true? Are there exceptions? What are they doing that the other African men aren't?
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Amina, if I could see these exceptions with my own two eyes i.e. a native African man who has an absolutely gorgeous, upwardly mobile Western woman as a partner, it would fill my heart with nothing but delight, heck I would want to interview the man and ask him his secret, as much as I might make fun of it, it's a very sad reflection upon me and my peers when the best we can get is a woman who is kilogramically challenged or has a host of other problems.
As for the stereotype thing, no by this point I have written 180 articles most of which don't have to do with stereotypes, but it seems like nothing pulls people to a discussion quite like giving an unpopular point of view about either politics or sex.......kinda sad, but true.
So I ask you the same question, are the stereotypes true? Are there exceptions? What are they doing that the other African men aren't?
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@sweetness: Thanks for the support, I wish I could say the implications of the article make me happy but in truth they don't, or at the very least we should be informed of just what type of women we should come to expect when we immigrate so that some of us don't come here expecting to be with Kim Kardashian and instead end up with something ffaaarrrrr worse.
Btw, it appears as though you may have some anger towards your fellow African men. Is it because of this whole Jungle Fever thing or something else entirely?
Thanks for your thoughts and observations.
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Btw, it appears as though you may have some anger towards your fellow African men. Is it because of this whole Jungle Fever thing or something else entirely?
Thanks for your thoughts and observations.
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written by jaya wardene , July 29, 2008
The Displaced African is a most popular blog and the hundreds of articles and comments published therein re enforce Mwangi as a household name.
It was therefore with much regret, dismay and disappointment that I read this sad posting which has beencleverly cunningly disguised as the result some sort of dodgy research. I held my nose and read the entire article hoping perhaps that there would be a twist in there somewhere that would redeem the post. I am sad to say that if the views expressed are actually Mwangi's, then I have been a poor judge of character.
I would summarise my objections to this outrageous post as follows: it is racist, sexist, disrespectful and offensive.
Racist: if a writer claimed to be white and then went on to write such an article there would be uproar. This machete cuts both ways.
Sexist: You show your sexist side when you fail to balance the post. Your portrayal of women as some kind of flesh that people go to inspect in a market is quite off-putting.
Disrespectful: there are many people in mixed-race relationships living normally in this world. Your fanciful article ignores this.
Offensive: All right-thinking people would feel offended if a doctor was to write a post about the smell in the gap between his patients little toes or why some people never change their underwear. Mwangi tacitly admits that he is solely motivated by faces...ie driving traffic to his blog.
It is a sad.
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It was therefore with much regret, dismay and disappointment that I read this sad posting which has been
I would summarise my objections to this outrageous post as follows: it is racist, sexist, disrespectful and offensive.
Racist: if a writer claimed to be white and then went on to write such an article there would be uproar. This machete cuts both ways.
Sexist: You show your sexist side when you fail to balance the post. Your portrayal of women as some kind of flesh that people go to inspect in a market is quite off-putting.
Disrespectful: there are many people in mixed-race relationships living normally in this world. Your fanciful article ignores this.
Offensive: All right-thinking people would feel offended if a doctor was to write a post about the smell in the gap between his patients little toes or why some people never change their underwear. Mwangi tacitly admits that he is solely motivated by faces...ie driving traffic to his blog.
It is a sad.
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written by John Ongeri , July 29, 2008
I have to agree with Amina and Jaya. This blog by Mwangi is nothing short of provocation. And then Mwangi wonders why nobody will publish it......
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written by Stephen Wanyama , July 29, 2008
It has often been said that many of those who scream racist, are the greatest bigots themselves. Will Mwangi try and get this article published on the front page of KenyaImagine please. Let's see why this article is hiding here, why does no one want to touch it?
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written by John Ongeri , July 29, 2008
This story could be likened to a scaled down version of that Danish cartoons controversy in that the allegedly offensive article is already published in Displaced African. At the time of the cartoons saga many media outfits published the offensive cartoons as an expression of press freedom and just as many refused to publish as a matter of principle.
I guess Kenyaimagine might be guided by Mwangi forthrightness in his article admitting that his main motivation is increased traffic to his blog.
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I guess Kenyaimagine might be guided by Mwangi forthrightness in his article admitting that his main motivation is increased traffic to his blog.
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written by Daniel.Waweru , July 29, 2008
What is this rubbish doing on KI's pages?
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written by jaya wardene , July 29, 2008
oops! Someone in the lions' den has accidentally stepped on a lion's tail. There is such an animal called freedom of expression. People demonstrate, go to prison and are even killed trying to defend it. One may not like the article, (which btw is not actually on KI's pages) perhaps you might tell us why you think that it is rubbish
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@jaya: Forgive me, this post will be a little meandering.
Thank you so much for the kind words about my blog and my name. That post was actually one of the first posts I ever wrote in my blog. It’s not based on scientific research, but it is empirical in that its based on my observations, my experience and interactions with many Africans over the years. As I said, when I initially wrote that article, I wrote it simply to express what was on my mind but over the months I have come to see that that article is what people want to discuss. My hope was that the offended parties would not only express how offended they were at the article, but more importantly, give me alternative scenarios and situations that currently take place.
So let me be clear, I am fine if that article offends you, it is quite a sensationalistic crude article, but please, sublimate that indignance and help me answer the question: do alternatives to what I have said exist and if so, where and what are they doing right that my peers are not.
Who knows, perhaps that article may be the nail in the coffin of my blog, but prior to being buried, let’s actually have a discussion about just how we can improve the lot of interracial relationships our peers currently have.
As you can see, I am really desperate to have discussions on that one, alright let’s go through the points one by one.
Racism: How so? I am not putting any race down or suggesting that any race has superiority over another. Please clarify what you mean when you say the article is racist so I can respond appropriately.
Sexist: Hmm, perhaps you might be right on this one, I will reread the post.
Disrespectful: YES! I want to hear this, please give me examples of this. Who is doing this? Where? Most importantly, how are they doing it. This is at the cornerstone of the discussion for me, who are these people and how do they do what they do?
Offensive: I was not motivated by raw traffic when I first wrote it. I am currently motivated by using the controversy and rage directed at the ideas of the article to have an honest exploration of our failings as African men immigrants and how to overcome them.
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Thank you so much for the kind words about my blog and my name. That post was actually one of the first posts I ever wrote in my blog. It’s not based on scientific research, but it is empirical in that its based on my observations, my experience and interactions with many Africans over the years. As I said, when I initially wrote that article, I wrote it simply to express what was on my mind but over the months I have come to see that that article is what people want to discuss. My hope was that the offended parties would not only express how offended they were at the article, but more importantly, give me alternative scenarios and situations that currently take place.
So let me be clear, I am fine if that article offends you, it is quite a sensationalistic crude article, but please, sublimate that indignance and help me answer the question: do alternatives to what I have said exist and if so, where and what are they doing right that my peers are not.
Who knows, perhaps that article may be the nail in the coffin of my blog, but prior to being buried, let’s actually have a discussion about just how we can improve the lot of interracial relationships our peers currently have.
As you can see, I am really desperate to have discussions on that one, alright let’s go through the points one by one.
Racism: How so? I am not putting any race down or suggesting that any race has superiority over another. Please clarify what you mean when you say the article is racist so I can respond appropriately.
Sexist: Hmm, perhaps you might be right on this one, I will reread the post.
Disrespectful: YES! I want to hear this, please give me examples of this. Who is doing this? Where? Most importantly, how are they doing it. This is at the cornerstone of the discussion for me, who are these people and how do they do what they do?
Offensive: I was not motivated by raw traffic when I first wrote it. I am currently motivated by using the controversy and rage directed at the ideas of the article to have an honest exploration of our failings as African men immigrants and how to overcome them.
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@John Ongeri: As I said, I feel no need to hide my intentions behind this article, I have expressed them in the post and in this comments thread. However, I don't think it would hurt to say it one more time, and from a slightly different angle.
As I say at the beginning of the article, my friend prior to my immigrating over promised me that as far as women were concerned,the West truly was the land flowing with milk and honey.
So that you don't think that these are just the sensationalistic ideas of a young African man, I also remember having candid discussions with many middle aged men who were visiting the country about how interracial relationships worked, to be quite frank, these men just wanted sex from these women.
Therefore, the issue is definitely relevant there is no doubt about that. But my intention when it's all said and done is quite simple:
To investigate if alternatives exist to the stereotypes I presented in the article. If so, where do they exist and what do these people do that other African men don't. If alternatives do not exist, then to raise awareness so that we can begin to investigate just how we will get out of this mess. When we are as well educated and have as much potential as we do as a people, we shouldn't be scrapping the barrel for partners, don't you agree?
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As I say at the beginning of the article, my friend prior to my immigrating over promised me that as far as women were concerned,the West truly was the land flowing with milk and honey.
So that you don't think that these are just the sensationalistic ideas of a young African man, I also remember having candid discussions with many middle aged men who were visiting the country about how interracial relationships worked, to be quite frank, these men just wanted sex from these women.
Therefore, the issue is definitely relevant there is no doubt about that. But my intention when it's all said and done is quite simple:
To investigate if alternatives exist to the stereotypes I presented in the article. If so, where do they exist and what do these people do that other African men don't. If alternatives do not exist, then to raise awareness so that we can begin to investigate just how we will get out of this mess. When we are as well educated and have as much potential as we do as a people, we shouldn't be scrapping the barrel for partners, don't you agree?
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@Stephen Wanyama: When I was invited to Kenya Imagine, I was invited to participate in the blog section and as such that's where I bring my discussions. If the editorial team deem it worthy of the front page, I don't object, but I think we have unleased enough of a discussion that this article can stand on its own two feet.
It's only one magazine that didn't want to touch it just to be clear. As I said, when I was interviewed I was surprised that both the women who interviewed me were particularly interested in the Jungle Fever article of all the articles I have written.
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It's only one magazine that didn't want to touch it just to be clear. As I said, when I was interviewed I was surprised that both the women who interviewed me were particularly interested in the Jungle Fever article of all the articles I have written.
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@John Ongeri: Traffic definitely is an objective with the article no doubt, it's a motivation every time I do anything online, but lest we forget what my blog is all about to begin with, it's not just an empty collection of random articles, I want us African immigrants with all our potential to do better. So, let's kindly step away from discussing the article now that we have all read it and begin to discuss how we can do better and maximize all this potential we have as immigrants. Press freedom or censorship of the ideas in the post is really of no consequence to me,the pragmatic results of the ideas behind the post and the discussions we have as a result, that matters to me. That matters a lot.
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@Daniel Waweru: As much as I appreciate your passion, could you please be more specific. What about the article is so trashy? The language? The content? One particular idea? Why?
Lol, as I said, one of the most interesting things about blogging and the world wide web is you never know how people will react to your ideas, rest assured I have written a few more crude articles in the Displaced African and have also written a lot of articles about all sorts of things, don't you all, who have commented find it interesting that my articles on being in control of your life, or how to immigrate to australia in one week, never got even a fraction of the discussion that my Jungle Fever and Barrack Obama articles did. That's always fascinated me. Anyway I digress........
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Lol, as I said, one of the most interesting things about blogging and the world wide web is you never know how people will react to your ideas, rest assured I have written a few more crude articles in the Displaced African and have also written a lot of articles about all sorts of things, don't you all, who have commented find it interesting that my articles on being in control of your life, or how to immigrate to australia in one week, never got even a fraction of the discussion that my Jungle Fever and Barrack Obama articles did. That's always fascinated me. Anyway I digress........
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written by pndiangui , July 29, 2008
Mwangi
I won't give the reasons that this might be the trend but the numbers kind of stuck up.
I would think that various explanations might apply including experimental youthfulness and some easy search for permananent residency.
The factors are many but the reality at this point in time is that your numbers stuck up.
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I won't give the reasons that this might be the trend but the numbers kind of stuck up.
I would think that various explanations might apply including experimental youthfulness and some easy search for permananent residency.
The factors are many but the reality at this point in time is that your numbers stuck up.
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There will always be stereotypes, generalisations, opnions, observations and we don not have to agree with them. First, i think that the article had the element of humour in it. It made me smile, But then again, i've been known to smile when a plane crash landed on some poor boy.I'm in proudly black woman in a relationship with an equally proud but white man. I have had to come to terms with the stereotypes associated with our relationship, from me being a golddigger and / or a prostitute to an uneducated african looking for greener pastures the easy way. I've been stopped at hotels lobbies and told that prostitutes are not allowed in the hotel and has sweetly replied to the man-in-charge ' I'm so sorry. He's my boyfriend, not a prostitute. Does he really look like a prostitute?'
But the truth is that many african girls are in the interracial relationships for the money and seeing a 70 year old white man with a 19 year old girl has put really bad taste in people's mouth and has made them less tolerant to any interracial relationship.I we can't pick a machette and cut every stereotyping dickhead's head off...
Back to Mweangi's article. Seriously... have you ever been at the coast (try the closet, Mombasa) during tourists high season? The women in the pictures above are super models compared to the beached whales i see with the beach boys!
Now hang me. here's the rope __________________________________________
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But the truth is that many african girls are in the interracial relationships for the money and seeing a 70 year old white man with a 19 year old girl has put really bad taste in people's mouth and has made them less tolerant to any interracial relationship.
Back to Mweangi's article. Seriously... have you ever been at the coast (try the closet, Mombasa) during tourists high season? The women in the pictures above are super models compared to the beached whales i see with the beach boys!
Now hang me. here's the rope __________________________________________
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@pndiangui: Thanks for your support of the article.Please, I would love to hear more about the reasons behind this and how we can get out of it.
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@Dark Angel: All the Uproar indeed. Again, thanks for standing up for me. Hmmm, I think this little microtest has taught me that unless I write an article in a different style there is pretty much no posibility of having a discussion about how to have healthy or super duper interracial relationships, the focus is too much on the sensationalism, crassness and raw language in the post as opposed to the underlying ideas. Oh well, at least now I know. That's a post for informal conversation only.
You know I did write a sequel post, Jungle Fever 2, where I gave my very superficial take on your situation, white man, black woman, your insight and wisdom would definitely be appreciated.
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You know I did write a sequel post, Jungle Fever 2, where I gave my very superficial take on your situation, white man, black woman, your insight and wisdom would definitely be appreciated.
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written by Daniel.Waweru , July 29, 2008
@Daniel Waweru: As much as I appreciate your passion, could you please be more specific. What about the article is so trashy? The language? The content? One particular idea? Why?
Sex, as a topic, I hasten to add, isn't too popular on KI: most of the writing about it in the Kenyan blogosphere is sensationalist rubbish. Your piece conforms to that not-very-proud tradition. There's no serious attempt to get to understand interracial relationships (or sex). All you've got is the familiar crude stereotypes expressed in language both coy ad smirking. A nauseating.
If you're going to write at all usefully about these topics, you'll need to meet the usual standards of relevance and seriousness. If you're going to write about these topics on KI, you'll need to meet a higher than usual standard of relevance and seriousness. Your piece fails to meet even ordinary standards of relevance and seriousness: it would not be out of place on Kumekucha or mashada.
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Sex, as a topic, I hasten to add, isn't too popular on KI: most of the writing about it in the Kenyan blogosphere is sensationalist rubbish. Your piece conforms to that not-very-proud tradition. There's no serious attempt to get to understand interracial relationships (or sex). All you've got is the familiar crude stereotypes expressed in language both coy ad smirking. A nauseating.
If you're going to write at all usefully about these topics, you'll need to meet the usual standards of relevance and seriousness. If you're going to write about these topics on KI, you'll need to meet a higher than usual standard of relevance and seriousness. Your piece fails to meet even ordinary standards of relevance and seriousness: it would not be out of place on Kumekucha or mashada.
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I have read several of Mwangi's posts in the past, and some have been helpful, while others, as he admits have been crude. We are invited to KI to create a diverse body of literature, lacking in the dailies or some popular forums. In this sense, Mwangi has brought change.
In terms of the stereotypical debates, race may not be used to divide. Seeing as we are just getting over what tribalism can do to our country, can we throw out these rubbish stereotypical posts.Mwangi, you have written other articles, so why pick this one to showcase your style and opinions? Perhaps it would have served well to showcase some other aspect that shows you better.
KI, please tell us why you posted this?
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In terms of the stereotypical debates, race may not be used to divide. Seeing as we are just getting over what tribalism can do to our country, can we throw out these rubbish stereotypical posts.Mwangi, you have written other articles, so why pick this one to showcase your style and opinions? Perhaps it would have served well to showcase some other aspect that shows you better.
KI, please tell us why you posted this?
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written by jaya wardene , July 29, 2008
I think Sunny has a point. Whilst we all accept that the displaced african has every right to hold an opinion we must also ask whether it is in the remit of KI's mission statement to air the opinions of all and sundry and simultaneously try to be different from the usual organs of dissemination which have comfortably settled for the lowest common denominator
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written by msazi , July 30, 2008
OMG! Pole! You know it is a little sad when I came back today and read all those comments up there. Sad only because this is someone's opinion, and I believe everyone has a right to have one. Human beings are hard to please and it is pretty much as impossible to cover all your basics when trying to;
1. Catch everyone's attention
2. Be professional
3. Be yourself
4. And like me sometimes ... just write.
I actually applaud you Mwangi because you just did something I have been trying to fight for a while. I stopped blogging a while back when I realised that my message was getting lost ( misinterprated) somewhere, I was offending someone and a whole lot more.
But back to you Mwangi ... I read some of the posts on your blog and I must say you have some good stuff on there. I liked the one on your days in Nursing. Keep writing anyway and whatever you may choose to write for that matter. I believe that is why this is the blog section.
Let me be the first to tell you that I have no alternative to give for the question you posed. Like you keep saying instead of bashing the post why not come with better ideas of what has worked and I will definitely be back to see where this goes. Thanks!
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1. Catch everyone's attention
2. Be professional
3. Be yourself
4. And like me sometimes ... just write.
I actually applaud you Mwangi because you just did something I have been trying to fight for a while. I stopped blogging a while back when I realised that my message was getting lost ( misinterprated) somewhere, I was offending someone and a whole lot more.
But back to you Mwangi ... I read some of the posts on your blog and I must say you have some good stuff on there. I liked the one on your days in Nursing. Keep writing anyway and whatever you may choose to write for that matter. I believe that is why this is the blog section.
Let me be the first to tell you that I have no alternative to give for the question you posed. Like you keep saying instead of bashing the post why not come with better ideas of what has worked and I will definitely be back to see where this goes. Thanks!
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@Daniel Waweru: You know what, I actually agree with you. The language and nature of the post has taken the nature of the conversation to debates I never intended on having. So I think as far as I am concerned, I failed in achieving my objective(s) behind that post.
Two of the many reasons I showcased this article as opposed to all the other articles were quite simple: I honestly believe that the most genuine and progressive conversations will not be had when we intellectually distance ourselves from a subject matter and analyze it clinically, though this definitely has its use don't get me wrong, it's when we are willing to open up and have informal conversations where we bring out the shall-we-say-worst-sides-of-ourselves together with our best sides and the second is the general interest in the subject matter.
Though, the reaction isn't what I wanted, there is no denying I hit a nerve somewhere...I have been blogging for 10 months and I have never been abused, or had my work abused this much. Hopefully everyone who abuses me or the article when its all said and done will take a moment and actually reflect on the questions I keep asking
In spite of the article's nature does it tell the truth? Do positive alternatives exist? If so, what are they doing, that other African males aren't?
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Two of the many reasons I showcased this article as opposed to all the other articles were quite simple: I honestly believe that the most genuine and progressive conversations will not be had when we intellectually distance ourselves from a subject matter and analyze it clinically, though this definitely has its use don't get me wrong, it's when we are willing to open up and have informal conversations where we bring out the shall-we-say-worst-sides-of-ourselves together with our best sides and the second is the general interest in the subject matter.
Though, the reaction isn't what I wanted, there is no denying I hit a nerve somewhere...I have been blogging for 10 months and I have never been abused, or had my work abused this much. Hopefully everyone who abuses me or the article when its all said and done will take a moment and actually reflect on the questions I keep asking
In spite of the article's nature does it tell the truth? Do positive alternatives exist? If so, what are they doing, that other African males aren't?
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@Sunny: I don't know how exactly the impression got across that I am somehow using this post to propose that one race is superior to the other, but if that is the message that came across, I must apologize that wasn't my intent. I have already said why I picked this article, but for as I said, I agree with you and Denniss, posting this article has been a lesson learned in just how powerfully the language of a post can direct the conversation sorrounding it.
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@msazi: Thank you for engaging in the debate with me 
You know even the fact that you said that you don't know any alternatives fills me with so much joy. I wouldn't expect too much, as I have said before, I wouldn't expect too much positive debate to come out of this article. I think we can consider this a micro-test into how language shapes debate and safely conclude that in this case the language and nature of the article matters A LOT....and not neccesarily in a good way.
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You know even the fact that you said that you don't know any alternatives fills me with so much joy. I wouldn't expect too much, as I have said before, I wouldn't expect too much positive debate to come out of this article. I think we can consider this a micro-test into how language shapes debate and safely conclude that in this case the language and nature of the article matters A LOT....and not neccesarily in a good way. report abuse
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written by instigator , July 30, 2008
My intelligence has never been so insulted. Is this what has Mwangi has stooped to, from a blog meant to guide and help immigrants to this kind of gutter journalism that should be in a Kenyan A4 paper.
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written by jaya wardene , August 01, 2008
@ the good Mwangi: the topic might be a bit cold right now but it may warm your heart to know that I stopped by at a pub jana and it was the main discussion amongst the patrons...it is all they were talking about. Your article has had an impact on far more people than the comments here might suggest.
Let me explain: It is a place frequented by young Kenyans. Quite a few of them now find themselves in mixed relationships. Many are subjected to ridicule by the general society, both black and white and the most vociferous opponents to young black men going with white ladies are black ladies. There is often an element of racist stereotyping but the main arguments lie in bringing up kids and settling back in the mother country. Young white girls are said to be unwilling to settle in Kenya.
There was an even 50/50 split between supporters and opponents of your assertions and we had a real good evening. At the end of the night we came away with the unanimous conclusion that yours was a brave and sincere effort to try to initiate genuine debate about some very important issues. It was agreed that people pretend to be too busy living to actually stop and think about how their actions and life-styles will affect them in the future...read here children's futures.. We also acknowledged that it is rare indeed to find someone open enough to tell some truths that we ourselves fail to discuss amongst ourselves due to the often misplaced fear of offending others. I was prompted to reconsider my initial reactions to your article. I intend to subscribe to your RSS and hope to see more of the same.
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Let me explain: It is a place frequented by young Kenyans. Quite a few of them now find themselves in mixed relationships. Many are subjected to ridicule by the general society, both black and white and the most vociferous opponents to young black men going with white ladies are black ladies. There is often an element of racist stereotyping but the main arguments lie in bringing up kids and settling back in the mother country. Young white girls are said to be unwilling to settle in Kenya.
There was an even 50/50 split between supporters and opponents of your assertions and we had a real good evening. At the end of the night we came away with the unanimous conclusion that yours was a brave and sincere effort to try to initiate genuine debate about some very important issues. It was agreed that people pretend to be too busy living to actually stop and think about how their actions and life-styles will affect them in the future...read here children's futures.. We also acknowledged that it is rare indeed to find someone open enough to tell some truths that we ourselves fail to discuss amongst ourselves due to the often misplaced fear of offending others. I was prompted to reconsider my initial reactions to your article. I intend to subscribe to your RSS and hope to see more of the same.
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